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Hey, its Boehner v Pelosi, Obama aint on the Ballot

by: BruceMcF

Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 12:37:37 PM EDT

4:30PM
Burning the Midnight Oil for Progressive Populism

Really, not as intense a tragedy as Kent State, but if he gets the Speaker's Gavel in a wave election, another tragedy from my home state, Boehner of Orange.

Versus Nancy Pelosi.

People, its the midterms. I understand that many had their hopes stoked by the Presidential campaign, and many had their hopes satisfied, at least somewhat, and many had their hopes dashed, at least somewhat ... but this aint Presidential Primary season. Its the General Election Midterms.

Where are the YouTubes telling young Hispanic first time 2008 voters in Spanish "Poder para el Pueblo / Nadie Silente! Vota!" ... where's the Green fightback against Republican scorched earth ... is it all lost in naval gazing in the middle of General Election season?

BruceMcF :: Hey, its Boehner v Pelosi, Obama aint on the Ballot

We don't vote in the Midterms to celebrate the choice in front of us.

We vote to shout back, to make the SOB's in DC and their corporate paymasters unhappy with the fact that we are voting.

We don't vote in the Midterms to place a bet on which team will win.

We vote to be in the game.

Its only one weapon in our armory. But if we don't exercise it, it blunts the edge of all the others.

ITS SEPTEMBER PEOPLE. SET THE PRO-ANTI-PRO-ANTI OBAMA ASIDE FOR TWO FREAKING MONTHS.

Its Pelosi versus Boehner. That's the contest.

It aint lofty fine inspiring speeches time, its the midterms.

Its political trench warfare. And we let the other side dig the trenches ... so, yeah, we are going to take some political casualties.

But even though its the other bastards who lit the oilfield, its our dirty job to put them out.

Gotta get down to it. Should have been done long ago.

Aint no guarantees in the fight for freedom, except:

Find the cost of Freedom. Buried in the Ground.
Mother Earth will swallow you. Lay your body down.

Tags: meta, John Boehner, Nancy Pelosi, Progressive Populism, (All Tags)

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Hey, its Boehner v Pelosi, Obama aint on the Ballot | 30 comments

Seed comment (15.00 / 4)

by: BruceMcF @ Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 16:43:11 PM UTC

No Man's Land (12.60 / 5)

Although I do not have any great love for most Democrats at the moment, and Pelosi lost me at "...off the table...", I will not fail to recognize that there is at least a smidgen of difference between her and Boehner.

I am in the interesting position of having nearly always had to vote for the lesser of two evils. There has not been a candidate - local, state, or national - for any office that I could and did vote for that represented my true interests and understanding. The last candidate that I could in good conscience throw my entire support behind was William Winter, for Governor, in 1980.

I am and always have been an independent, with a small "i", and will continue to be one for the foreseeable future. However, I have noticed that when the Republicans rule, things get much worse much more quickly than when the Democrats are in the seats of power. The Republicans make sure to scrape the crumbs off the table and dispose of them in their own pockets, while the Democrats are more likely to let the crumbs fall off the table where "the lesser people" can at least have a hope of eating off the floor.

So, I'm in neither set of trenches, but in No Man's Land, exposed to the crossfire. The Democrats may not care whether I get hit but they don't actively aim to shoot at me and the other side does. I know where my better chances are and I concur with your sentiment as expressed in this powerful essay.

"In proportion to the vigor of the individual, these revolutions are frequent, until in some happier mind they are incessant..." R.W.Emerson - Compensation

by: incessantrevolutions @ Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 17:27:34 PM UTC

As a Democrat for the time being, ... (14.33 / 6)

... until they kick the progressive wing out of the party for causing too much trouble, ...

... its normally only in the primaries that I get to vote for someone I want to vote for. But of course, in midterms, its the lunatic right that understands that primary season is when you organize to fight to get the people you want, while progressives repeatedly act as if the primary is some kind of snap election called at the last minute with no time for anyone to prepare and start putting work in.

Until progressives mobilize and organize to win midterm primaries ... until progressives stop being political dilettantes ... we'll continue voting for the losing candidate in the primary and then have a LOTE vote in the general election.

But that's just only strategizing in December of 2009 or December of 2010 ... in September of 2010 its naval gazing.

Nancy has repeatedly delivered more than can be got through the Senate, and indeed more than would be likely to get through the Senate without the filibuster ... in part of course due to White House opposition to whatever the Progressive Caucus wins in the House ...

... and Boehner on the other hand would never deliver as much as could be got through a "Democratic" Senate, even without the filibuster, given the Corporate Majority in place in the Senate, which will only increase in the coming election.

So whether progressive won or lost or, most likely, failed to contest the primary in any of our House districts, and State Senate and State Representative districts, we still have to go and vote to build ourselves into the political calculation. The more the midterms general electorate resembles a Republican primary electorate, the less reason the professional political class will have to care what happens in the Presidential election years.

by: BruceMcF @ Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 18:05:27 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I definitely agree (15.00 / 4)

Pelosi is way better than any Republican would be, there is no doubt, for all the reasons you have stated.

However, I just can't bring myself to join the Dem party in my state. They have an egregious plank in their platform. So, I do not get to vote in primaries. If and when the day arrives that there is a truly liberal Dem running for office in Mississippi that needs support in a primary AND they will attempt to remove the offending plank, I may be forced to reassess my position. Hence "the foreseeable future" in my comment above. Of course, I do allow that there is an occasional exception even in Mississippi to the no liberal Dems rule. Specifically, Benny Thompson comes to mind. But he is unfortunately not my Representative.

My comments about my particular thoughts or my situation are in no way meant to be an affront to or questioning of your general or even specific comments about the way you see things in the current election cycle. I write to let folks out there know that when all they have left is a LOTE vote, they are not alone... The Obama/Pelosi/Reid disappointments are nothing at all new to many of us out here. They are just the same old local story writ large - on the national stage. But that is not a reason to quit and go home. It is a reason to find ways to fight harder and smarter. I mostly spend what time I have available to fight specific ideas or local projects that are the result of right-wing thinking, hoping to mitigate the disasters and change minds when possible. But I still vote, LOTE or not.

"In proportion to the vigor of the individual, these revolutions are frequent, until in some happier mind they are incessant..." R.W.Emerson - Compensation

by: incessantrevolutions @ Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 19:50:53 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I don't get how the vile plank gets changed ... (11.00 / 3)

... if those who find it vile refuse to join the party to change it.

by: BruceMcF @ Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 01:26:52 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

You may have a point there (14.33 / 3)

If you would like to move to east central Mississippi and help me start a movement to lobby the Democratic Party of Mississippi to support gay marriage rights, come on down.

"In proportion to the vigor of the individual, these revolutions are frequent, until in some happier mind they are incessant..." R.W.Emerson - Compensation

by: incessantrevolutions @ Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 07:15:56 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

That's not what I said. (12.67 / 3)

I wasn't talking about lobbying the party, I was talking about taking over the party from the inside. And it aint going to be done with carpetbaggers from Ohio ... and if I was in a position to carpetbag, I'd pick Southeastern Ohio, were I could claim to be a Buckeye by birth.

by: BruceMcF @ Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 14:52:52 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

sorry for jumping in... (15.00 / 3)

just wanted to let you know this comment will have me laughing all day! taking over the party from the inside? yes, on the surface such sensible advice, sounds so much like a real plan... but surely you jest!!

change the state democratic parties of the deep south? you mean the republican-almost-light, anti-women's choice and anti-glbt equality state democratic parties? perhaps holding hands, in order to take over from the inside, of course, with the many democratic party members who spit out the word "liberal" with every bit as much venom as they do "n!&&@r"? (and please don't be shocked that there are southern democrats as fond of the n word as Dr. Laura). or maybe you're talking of trying to change the minds of "democrats" who have been completely and permanently bamboozled into believing that a conservative, "centrist" spin and betraying democratic party principles is the only way to win an election... funny how they rarely win, but by God and Guns the state's party apparatus continues to push them on the ticket and back them with everything they have in the primaries.

I'll never, ever, forget the first time I heard President Obama speak in person - it was at a rally for Harold Ford, Jr. in Nashville on Nov. 5, 2006 ~ well, it was much more like a down home tent revival, complete with Harold and the President with their very finest southern fire and brimstone preacher impersonations... marriage is between one man and one woman, by God! we MUST protect the unborn, so sayeth the Lord... of course, that was when Ford, Jr. was against a woman's right to choose before he was for it up in NYC...

and I'll never, ever, forget holding my nose and still voting for Ford, Jr., nor will I forget the sickening feeling of putting party over of my own deeply held beliefs - and all for nothing! Tennesseans still sent Corker to the senate! go team!!!

NEVER AGAIN!

my intention is not disrespect of your position, but only taking the opportunity to vent based on my own very personal experiences, and to fully support irev, as well as otb, here in this post. (and any other dreamer who happens to live in the deep south knows exactly what I'm talking about, unfortunately)

"Since reconstruction, the masses of my people have been, as it were, enslaved in mind by unprincipled adventurers, who, caring nothing for country, were willing to stoop to anything no matter how infamous, to secure power to themselves, and perpetuate it.
...
My people have been told by these schemers, when men have been placed on the ticket who were notoriously corrupt and dishonest, that they must vote for them; that the salvation of the party depended upon it..." ~ Hiram Revels, first African American Senator (from Mississippi) in a letter to President Grant on Nov. 6, 1875

emphasis mine

as our dear Miki's sig line states, "the more things change, the more they stay the same"... it's truly heartbreaking that 140 years later, the mantra continues... we simply MUST vote for whomever has a (D) after their name, as if "the salvation of the party depended upon it." gha! what utter horseshit.

apologies for the rant, we now take you back to your regularly scheduled programming...

It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Thoreau ... and, do no harm

by: newpioneer @ Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 17:15:55 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

No, I do not jest. (14.00 / 3)

The radical right wing did it to the Republican parties. It takes organization and mobilization outside of the party apparatus and year round commitment to build an organizational base inside the party apparatus. But its not like local parties attract massive membership ... if we had mass membership parties, the Republicans could never have been taken over.

If you don't have anyone to vote for in the primary, vote for whomever is best, and if electing whomever gets the nomination would cause more trouble for the caucus than they are worth, then vote third party, but staying home and apathetic is no way to get anything done.

by: BruceMcF @ Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 17:40:09 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

just making sure! (14.67 / 3)

actually, I knew you weren't joking, even though I really did laugh out loud. and I never said I would not be voting - I'll just never vote party over personal convictions ever again. ever.

and instead of referring to folks that choose to stay home as "apathetic", or whatever other derogatory term you can come up with, perhaps a little empathy would go much further in convincing them to participate.

for those that choose to stay home because they refuse to support the lesser of two evils, I respect and understand that - a lesser evil is still evil.

for those that choose to stay home because they've witnessed for a lifetime the hypocrisy, corruption and arrogance of elected officials, only interested in promoting their own political careers over the needs of the people no matter the color of their party banner, I respect and understand that.

for those that choose to stay home because their voices are continually drowned in a sea of red, rendering their votes absolutely useless, I respect and understand that, too.

perhaps a national conversation based on empathy and understanding, a conversation based on believable and motivating solutions, instead of worn cliches or insulting one's motives or intelligence, may convince some to again stand up and be heard.

we're better than republicans isn't quite gonna get it done come November - far too many are suffering and angry, and angry with good reason.

and personally, blaming Bush and the republicans holds no more water with me than Bush and his gang constantly blaming Clinton and the democrats.

Second verse, same as the first!
I'm Henery the Eighth, I am,
Henery the Eighth I am, I am!...

either stand up to the challenge of the times, or fall - no one forced any of these egomaniacs holding political office to run, they simply need to accept responsibility as leaders, and lead. "it's not my fault", or, "it's just sooooo hard" is the epitome of cowardice, IMO.

I also believe that an unenthusiastic, even depressed voting base is the result of apathetic and unresponsive leadership, not apathetic citizens. and anyone who lays the blame at the feet of the people instead of where it belongs - our wall st. over main st. bought and paid for political leaders - immediately loses credibility with me.

now I'm going for a nice, long horse ride, maybe down to the beach, and try to put politics out of my mind for even a little while...

thanks, Bruce, I always enjoy your posts, even when we don't exactly agree!

It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Thoreau ... and, do no harm

by: newpioneer @ Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 19:25:27 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

We're better than Republicans. (10.33 / 3)

What else is a general election but installing yourself into the political calculations of the professional politicians for the next time around. Opting out of the vote for the leadership of the House of Representatives because the President turns out to have been more snake oil sold by snake oil salesmen just makes not sense to me.

Its fighting the powers that be by doing exactly what they want us to do and what they have been programming us to do in the media for over a year.

Perhaps its the opposite of apathy ... perhaps its an emotional reaction in lieu of acting to reclaim our stolen citizenship.

If nothing else, vote for a third party candidate. The party of the incumbent far prefers that you stay home than that third party candidates receive any encouragement.

by: BruceMcF @ Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 19:53:51 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

ok (10.67 / 3)

so we're back to the "we're better than republicans" mantra. and then worn out slogans of "snake oil", "powers that be", "programming" and "stolen citizenship"? really???

and your first sentence is truly enlightening. stupid me, I always thought free elections were an expression of the people's will - and now I learn that I've just been "installing [myself] into the political calculations of professional politicians for the next time around"! gha, I feel like such a moran...

thanks for clearing everything up for me, I'm really excited about working the phones and getting out the vote! go team!!!

It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Thoreau ... and, do no harm

by: newpioneer @ Mon Sep 06, 2010 at 04:40:16 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Where'd you get that idea? (10.33 / 3)

"I always thought free elections were an expression of the people's will" ... if you believe that, then it would seem to be your duty to vote so that it continues to be the case.

Out in the world I see, though, that is an aspiration rather than an achieved goal, and it won't be achieved if those who have that aspiration politically disarm themselves in protest at the fact that the "free elections are an expression of the people's will" is not handed to them on a platter.

I was not the one who said "We are better than the Republicans". You said the phrase, I just used it to point to which part of your comment I was responding to.

There are three ways to react to the fact that the system is rigged:

(1) Drop out.
(2) Fight for better candidates in the primaries and
(2a) Vote LOTE if no worthwhile candidate is running or
(2b) Vote 3rd party is not worthwhile candidate is running.

Option (1) is the option that the Corporate wings of both parties most prefer that we take, and so I won't adopt it.

by: BruceMcF @ Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 05:37:43 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I do believe that (15.00 / 2)

and, again, I never stated that I would not be voting. I thought I had clarified this point in an above comment, "I never said I would not be voting - I'll just never vote party over personal convictions ever again. ever", so I'd really appreciate it if you'd stop lecturing me about my "duty". and as an ex-pat, for all intents and purposes, I go through extremes to vote, as well as GOTV, that I suspect you can hardly relate to.

and, "we're better than republicans", was just my way of expressing what I believe to be the theme of your essay... not to mention the entire democratic strategy to date, that I believe you are simply reinforcing.

Really, not as intense a tragedy as Kent State, but if he gets the Speaker's Gavel in a wave election, another tragedy from my home state, Boehner of Orange.
Versus Nancy Pelosi.
...
Its Pelosi versus Boehner. That's the contest.
It aint lofty fine inspiring speeches time, its the midterms.
Its political trench warfare. And we let the other side dig the trenches ... so, yeah, we are going to take some political casualties.
But even though its the other bastards who lit the oilfield, its our dirty job to put them out.

is there another message I should getting from your opening and closing words?

and just so you know, I'm with you in heart. the only point I wished to discuss is an effective strategy for encouraging voters to turn out. demonizing the "other" and referring to those we wish to reach as "apathetic", IMO, is not an effective strategy. obviously I've failed to communicate this to you, and I apologize.

and as a latino, "Poder para el Pueblo / Nadie Silente! Vota!", es un mensaje que simplemente no llega al corazón. cuando los republicanos nos demonizan, y los demócratas nos ignoran hasta que quieren donaciones o nuestros votos, hará falta algo más que eslóganes insinceros para que nos mueven a votar. just my opinion, though I definitely appreciate you including us in the mix...

there is only one point that I completely disagree with in your essay, and that is, "It aint lofty fine inspiring speeches time, its the midterms."

during election season, "lofty fine inspiring speeches" are the exact things that our political leaders should be doing in order to reach the hearts of the people. and I'm glad that President Obama understands this simple fact. as critical and cynical as I've been of him and this administration, even I've been inspired with his recent speeches. now, if only the rest of our democratic leaders and those on the ballot would follow suit...

it's been great discussing this with you, Bruce, thank you.

It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Thoreau ... and, do no harm

by: newpioneer @ Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 13:38:24 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You could lobby from inside the party, that'd be fine with me (14.50 / 4)

I didn't say it had to be done from outside the party, and carpetbaggers from Ohio would have just as must chance as I would of changing it.

And although that single issue is an important reason it is not my only reason for being an independent. I have hung my hat on this issue in the above comments out of convenience in the necessarily relatively short space in which to share my thoughts. It is merely representative of the state of the State, not the sum total of my objections. I'm not prepared to write a multipage essay about it so this usage of a single issue will have to do for now...

Recently there was a general election in my area in which the Democratic candidate actually was slightly more socially liberal than the Republican candidate and he got stomped. I think you don't understand how hopeless it really is here, at least until another decade or two's worth of ignorant old mean-spirited white people die off. Lest I pick on them alone, though, the vast majority of black churches here are just as homophobic as the white ones, perhaps even more so.

There is no coalition to be had here, there is no one to organize with to take over the corner store, much less a state party. I'm just one liberal of the kind that a supermajority of Mississippians dislikes intensely and disagrees with vehemently. What you propose is akin to joining the Republican party to take it over and change its attitude about labor unions and 'trial lawyers'.

I wouldn't join the ~~KKK~~ CCC to try to change their minds about the benefits of a viable welfare and unemployment system and I'm not going to join the Dems down here to try and change their mind about gay marriage. I like your enthusiasm, BruceMcF, and I'm happy for you. I hope your enthusiasm never hits a brick wall like the one I see that separates me from party politics. Like I said above, I pick and choose my battles in areas where I think I can make a difference. Party politics is not one of those areas.

As it is, I am usually able to vote for the winner between two conserva-dems with slightly different plastic hairdos, neither of whom truly represent me. And it is still always the case that they are the better choice in the general election because they will cast their vote for the Dem leadership who are hopefully at least slightly more liberal than the conserva-dem we might elect down here in my district once in a blue moon.

"In proportion to the vigor of the individual, these revolutions are frequent, until in some happier mind they are incessant..." R.W.Emerson - Compensation

by: incessantrevolutions @ Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 17:49:20 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Pelosi lost ME at "off the table," too (12.60 / 5)

but I'm loving her anyway.

Send some love to Sestak and Herr, if you can afford it. Herr will probably lose :( but in Sestak v. Toomey, it's Liberal v. Scumtorum all over again.

Or do I have to remind you that Toomey is a major player in the Club for Growth -- meaning, he wants to grow the money of the richest of the rich while kicking the rest of us off the curb.

Not kidding. The PA election is that important.

English usage is sometimes more than mere taste, judgment and education - sometimes it's sheer luck, like getting across the street.
E. B. White

by: Youffraita @ Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 22:02:51 PM UTC

oh to die fir (10.33 / 3)

http://margaretandhelen.wordpr...

English usage is sometimes more than mere taste, judgment and education - sometimes it's sheer luck, like getting across the street.
E. B. White

by: Youffraita @ Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 23:41:30 PM UTC

I love 'em! (13.00 / 2)

good thing I'd already finished my coffee, Youff!!! gha, their rants remind me so much of Molly.

It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Thoreau ... and, do no harm

by: newpioneer @ Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 00:07:43 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Ain't it the truth! (13.00 / 2)

The greatest threat against America are the tens of millions of Americans who won't turn out to vote this November effectively giving power to 87,000 angry assholes

by: Alma @ Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 01:07:57 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

zip (11.75 / 4)

My perspective is pretty much the same as it has been for the last 40 years, formed in the late sixties it consists of a deep distrust of the establishment including the government the military and commercial interests. I was a member of the counterculture and the establishment was the culture to be countered whenever possible.

The establishment was a corrupt, deceitful and self serving beast that would not accept the changes that would be necessary to improve the lives of the citizens and would fight to the death to keep the status quo intact. Pretending that a vote for the lesser of two evils could impact this juggernaut was a form of wishful thinking and a distraction; at least that was the general feeling.

So I spent my life removed from politics and the games they play; I did have a faint glimmer of hope when someone my age was elected president but nothing changed at least not in the meaningful way I would have wished. The guy may have been my age but he was still the establishment and it still stank in the same way it always had.

I was pulled into observing politics when the war party went on the warpath and started attacking other countries preemptively, it seemed bad form to simply look away and ignore the harm my country was inflicting on the world. When Pelosi took impeachment off the table I was aghast at the seeming green light being given to the warmongers to proceed without any democratic interference, didn't they stand for anything?

If someone can justify to themselves why participating in an obviously rigged game is worth the effort I wish them well. I voted once recently for the first time but it has come to naught, nothing, zip and I don't plan on doing it again; fool me once and all that. Like so many others I was enthused that we had a new kind of leader with a new kind of vision for this country but when it came time to implement the changes that we hoped for all I heard was a dull meaningless thud of business as usual, how disappointing.

I remember R.D. Lang saying during the long and depressing Nixon years that even the apparently negative response of apathy could eventually bring down an oppressive government. It might take a long time but disinterest and disgust are a force to be reckoned with, if a government so alienates its population that it no longer participates in the system that is in itself a form of activism though a passive form to be sure.

R.D. Lang quote: Insanity -- a perfectly rational adjustment to an insane world.

"the world is full of admirable craftsmen but so few practical dreamers" Man Ray

by: oldtomblood @ Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 11:23:19 AM UTC

??? (14.20 / 5)

I guess what I would like to ask is; has the establishment changed in any significant way since the sixties, is it more open to the voices of the people than it was then? Are our politicians less corrupt now, are they less influenced by big corporate interests than they were in the past?

If the gap between the rich and the poor is any indication of our national health we are actually worse off now than we were 50 years ago. Politics did not hinder or try and alter this course they encouraged it every chance they got, why should we expect this to change in any way?

"the world is full of admirable craftsmen but so few practical dreamers" Man Ray

by: oldtomblood @ Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 14:28:54 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I quite agree, there is no reason to expect them to ... (14.00 / 2)

... change on their own initiative, and if we drop out of party politics and leave it to the Corporations, things will only ever get worse.

by: BruceMcF @ Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 05:40:23 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

sobering, otb... (15.00 / 3)

Like so many others I was enthused that we had a new kind of leader with a new kind of vision for this country but when it came time to implement the changes that we hoped for all I heard was a dull meaningless thud of business as usual, how disappointing.

and the R.D. Lang quote is perfect

It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Thoreau ... and, do no harm

by: newpioneer @ Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 14:47:58 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Who is the new kind of leader ... (15.00 / 3)

... in the quote? I'm a bit lost there ... since McGovern, I can't recall a nominee of either party who it applies to, let alone a President. The White House has been enemy territory since the first election I was old enough to vote for, with a succession of Big Oil Republicans and Hedge Fund Democrats from 1980 on.

For people who bought the hype on Obama, I guess there must be a time to work through the feelings of disappointment that he always was another Hedge Fund Democrat, but plenty of time for that in the Holiday season.

by: BruceMcF @ Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 17:44:39 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

LOL! (15.00 / 2)

perhaps we agree on more than I first thought!!!

and for me, the quote from otb was obviously referring to Obama... and whether or not you saw through the facade, millions upon millions of others really did believe in the hope and change he campaigned on. and here we are, on the verge of what could turn out to be a catastrophic midterm election cycle because of it... nothing like playing your supporters for fools to get that enthusiasm going, huh?

It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Thoreau ... and, do no harm

by: newpioneer @ Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 19:36:13 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yes, but not being an investment bank CEO, ... (15.00 / 3)

... I don't have any say on what the White House does.

Part of the reason for framing the fight for the People's House as Boehner vs Pelosi is I don't want to waste time during general election season on the argument about whether or not the President is a progressive. In the end, the result of a Pelosi House will be more progressive than the result of a Boehner House, and that's true for those of us who voted for Obama as the LOTE just as much as its true for those who voted for Audaciously Hoping that Obama Really Means more than he actually promises.

by: BruceMcF @ Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 19:42:54 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I agree completely (15.00 / 2)

with your framing, Bruce. it shouldn't be about Obama, but unfortunately, as the leader of the party he's in the mix whether I like it or not. and I'm sure the republicans will continue to make the midterms an all out assault on Obama - it's all they know how to do - makes no difference that he's not on the ticket. how effectively the democratic leadership responds to the attack will determine the outcome. up to now, IMO, the response from our leadership has been pathetic.

and you're right, of course, "In the end, the result of a Pelosi House will be more progressive than the result of a Boehner House..."

It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Thoreau ... and, do no harm

by: newpioneer @ Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 21:01:41 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

No, apathy cannot change an establishment. (10.50 / 4)

The theocrats tried that for decades ... evangelical voting was low, on average, for quite a long time. Then they were mobilized and began voting above average and, lo and behold, the political advantage to being a theocrat shot up and we get people like Bachman elected to the House.

Apathy is what they want: they would far prefer the right wing crazies and left wing crazies just give up, and let the corporations fight over who can market the best to the mushy middle.

by: BruceMcF @ Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 14:56:29 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

sorry, BruceMcF (13.33 / 3)

Hey Bruce, I didn't mean to pin your balloon with my cynicism; I am behind your noble efforts to get things done on a political level I just thought you should hear how some of us feel down here underground. There is plenty of work to do and we all have a part to play even if it is not involved with politics.

So while I may not vote I am still trying to further the cause of peace, love and understanding by talking about it and playing music and making funny art. Changing the consciousness of America is my goal if I have one and even a sliver of such a change can eventually work its way into the political realm and hopefully improve the chances of a better tomorrow.

Newp, man oh man, you have a voice and I can hear it loud and clearly over the constant din of mediocrity spinning wildly from the calliope of false hope and broken dreams.

"the world is full of admirable craftsmen but so few practical dreamers" Man Ray

by: oldtomblood @ Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 23:14:46 PM UTC

I hope you are not stopping voting ... (13.00 / 3)

... if you weren't among those who voted for Pelosi's leadership of the People's House in the first place, your staying home would not represent a swing against Pelosi's leadership of the people's House.

by: BruceMcF @ Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 19:45:56 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Hey, its Boehner v Pelosi, Obama aint on the Ballot | 30 comments

_{Since February 19, 2010}

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