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Buy and Sell, and Survive

  

by: Miep

Sat Nov 13, 2010 at 00:25:44 AM EST


(a toolkit on how to begin a recycled, alternate, parallel economy.
- promoted by RiaD
)

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This is a crosspost from Daily Kos, an essay about how I work as an indie selling stuff on the Net.. I got a lot of helpful response there, so I'm adding some selected comments to the bottom of the essay.

Miep :: Buy and Sell, and Survive
Today's good news is that I went out and trashpicked and acquired a large amount of clean high-end foam wrap from the furniture/appliance rent-to-own store.

They are one of my best sources. Another one is the health food/pill shop. There are also gift shops that are useful at times.

I only trashpick. I have tried asking people to save stuff for me, but they forget.

Since I'm an Ebay seller, being able to trashpick clean packing material is a real plus. Buying boxes or styrofoam peanuts or foam wrap is really expensive.

When I have a good surplus of clean packing material (generally I only buy tape, and manila envelopes when I can get them cheap, and I can), I feel a lot more comfortable with running a lot of listings at once.

So, that was good. Now I can focus on listing more stuff without having to worry about this so much, though I still need to find a box of styrofoam peanuts.

The last three boxes I shipped out were with large books, and I had to really scrabble to find packing material. But since I carefully save things that might be useful, since I've been doing mail order since about 1997, I managed effectively.

Trashpicking is a careful art. It's best to focus on businesses that are unlikely to be putting toxic stuff in the trash, and it's also good to check the bins frequently, and know the trash pickup schedule, when you find a good place to trashpick. Be particular. Don't dig out stuff from the bottom.

I cut my costs a lot via trashpicking packaging material, and that gives me an edge. I am profligate with tape, though. A well-taped box is always reassuring to receive.

Also, I put my books in plastic bags (I mostly sell books, though I also do other stuff). That way they are waterproofed.

I haven't been buying lately, because I'm still working out some old inventory. But when I start buying, this is how I'm going to do it, with some other suggestions about how you might do it as well:

  1. Look for quality items I can't use. Clothing can be good, since it comes in a lot of sizes. New shoes, such as good quality hiking boots. You can sell these at auction at sites like Ebay; wait for them to give good promotional rates.

  2. Find small decorative things that aren't just junky stuff. Freight matters a lot.

  3. Take the time to be careful with your photographs. Buy a midrange camera from Costco or buy a used one online. Learn how to use it.

  4. Write a concise, snappy description of your sale item. Note its failings, be honest. Don't carry on excessively.

Your ratings as a seller will depend on this, and they matter. Don't rush yourself as you write and design your listings. Buyers are savvy; they can tell a rank amateur from someone reasonably competent and professional.

  5. Ship fast and keep in touch with your customers. Make sure they get email notification when their purchases are shipped.

  6. Use tracking numbers. Delivery confirmation (US Postal Service) costs about eighty cents now. Build it into the price of your item. Make sure your customers get that number sent to them when you ship them their purchase. Buying insurance is much less useful. Better to pack and label very carefully, and pay for the tracking number. If you are selling something worth maybe a hundred or so, consider using signature confirmation for a few bucks. Insurance claims with the post office take forever and can be difficult to win.

  7. Back to buying: shop yard sales, sure. Get there early. But also look to your local thrift shops. If you have one locally that is run as a charity, make a point of gifting them anything you have that you can't sell and don't need. Come by frequently. Make a point of buying things from them. Get receipts from them for donations, and also for purchases. Write them up yourself and ask the clerk to sign them, if necessary. It all adds up. Sure, you won't necessarily be able to write off donations if you don't make enough money to file schedule A, but do it anyway. You never know.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. Any other ideas?

Now, for the comments:

far as dead furniture goes, the way you do that is work out the trash pickup days, when people will put stuff like that out.

Stay away from pine, look for hardwood. You should also be able to drill small, direct holes so that you can screw together broken limbs.

Also, have the patience to do refinishing.

Overall, not a good way to make money, but if you want better furniture and have the patience to work this, you can truly get better furniture. (Me)

you know about the YA YA chairs...? .started in '88, a visual artist started working with inner city high school kids, focused on making personal projects outa cast-off chairs. YA YA's evolved into a deep, self-sustaining force in NOLA. I've had the pleasure o' working with some of the YA YAs... (luckydog) (ed. note: that is one cool site, very inspiring)


Another excellent trash-picking target are those storage rental places (they've become ubiquitous for storing the too much junk consumers accumulate).At either the beginning or end of the month, when people who can't pay get their stuff tossed into the dumpsters, or have reclaimed what they can and trash the rest. Often you can find halfway decent furniture items if you've an eye for it, boxes, packing materials, all sorts of nifty odds and ends.

You may have to get to know the management, or rent a small unit yourself so you can be there whenever you want. If you're doing a lot of buying and selling and trash-picking, it'll pay for itself...(Joieau)

I thought they auctioned off... the contents of storage containers or sold merchandise to junk dealers.  I'd be surprised if they just threw it out.  Especially nowadays.

that being said, when I lived in a large apartment complext therre was always junk in the trash bins.  One time someone unloaded the entire contents of an apartment out on the grass.  People were coming from all over picking at it.  it was weird. (DawnG)

Another eBay selling/listing tip: don't overestimate, or get too hung up on, what you perceive as the "worth" of what you're selling.  

In the past we've sold stuff on eBay that we found in thrift stores-- mostly designer clothing-- and though we knew that they were "worth" big bucks, that never meant that we could count on their bringing big bucks.  Some things that were pretty rare and valuable got no bids.  Some things that were well-made but not really big-ticket items ended at prices that were astronomical compared to the starting price.  You never know-- people get into bidding wars over things; or they just don't feel like buying sometimes.  We found that the best overall strategy was to start our items reasonably with a little profit built in, and also to build in auction costs into the item's price.  Then we'd sit back and see where the auction goes.  (concernedamerican)

University book sales. They all have them, about twice a year.

You're not looking for the bookstore's 50% off sale; you're looking for the library's "we're selling the books nobody's checked-out" sale. I got some great first editions from those events. (openda)

There are a variety of organizations that hold such events.

I don't drive, and that limits me a lot. But even where I live, there are old folks homes that have annual book sales, and the library does one, and there are various churches that hold rummage sales, etc. And sometimes the schools dump books, too.

It's all about learning how to buy, and making connections. (Me)

I gave up selling on Ebay.
And aLibris. I sell on my own websites now. Vintage cookbooks on my food site. Nonfiction on my political site. They have only been up a month or two, so it is not clear how the pages will do, but we shall see. I have a blog selling homemade cat toys filled with organic catnip and other toys I make.

I am busy and happy. I join many other people who are running very small businesses. I am proud. I am productive. And my religion blog (where I sell Kindle) is being followed internationally as well as nationally. All my blogs/businesses are very small scale, but everybody has to start somewhere.

The big bad banks cannot hurt me if I don't depend on them. (CherryTheTart)

Another place to sell large items is Craig's list, things people don't want to pay to ship like the dogloo doghouse I didn't need anymore.

One eBay selling tip I have...if you have an odd size item to sell, find the box you can ship it in before you list it. That way you can ship quickly when the auction is over. It impresses the heck out of me when I get an ebay item faster than most catalogs or online commercial stores can do it. (loftT)

that's good advice. Also check the weight and box dimensions. They charge extra for big boxes. I learned that the hard way once. With the weight and box dimensions you can work out the postage online, although first class postage probably varies with distance. (Me)

Nurse Kelley is in the process of creating a Kos Katalogue.  E-bay is good, and Etsy (etsy.com) is another place to sell hand-made goods.  More exposure is always better when trying to sell unique items. (puzzled)

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"Indeed, if a poor man will spend a year in prison for stealing out of hunger,
how high would the gallows need to be to hang the rich man?"
~The Patrician in 'Snuff' by Terry Pratchett



thank you (15.00 / 4)
for bringing this here.  I really need to get a bunch of stuff on eBay before the holidays, and your tips will come in very handy.

I see more and more people giving up on the traditional idea of getting a job at a corporation with benefits (pretty much a futile effort these days) and looking for alternative ways to make money.  This fits that mold perfectly.


you're welcome, puzzled (15.00 / 5)
I think I'm only just getting the hang of Ebay though. Kind of a learning curve there.

I have more experience with mail order and with Internet book selling, generally. I spent several years selling live spiders and other arachnids via mail order, for instance. I have some stories about that!

Book selling is mostly about learning what isn't worth anything for very long, and distinguishing between what is scarce and in low demand, and what is in higher demand than the current availability. The former will maybe sell eventually, some year; the latter may sell fast even if there are a lot around - depends on demand.

I don't generally recommend getting invested in books, though. They are not an easy commodity, though it's been pointed out that having a hard copy of something makes it a lot harder for the censors to delete it.

It is a good idea to specialize, though - i.e., learn something about what you sell. Of course, with enough time, you can surf the net and do light research on all kinds of things.

This kind of business is good for introverts who can read and type quickly, and have some skills at photography. My photographs vary a lot in quality, I'm still working that one out. I never was a photographer before I got my digital camera a few years ago, so I'm still learning the ropes. Two people working together on a business could possibly split the tasks according to skill, too. I really miss having a skilled picker, for instance, since I don't drive. I've done 50/50 consignments in the past with good pickers, and that worked to some extent.

A lot of buying and selling is about looking around for people making mistakes, though. You can do this in person or online. One trick people use is to search sites like Ebay for misspelled listings. That requires some imagination :-)

A friend of mine once bought an old hand-dyed blanket for about $30 in a shop near here. They didn't know what it was; he sold it at auction for several thousand; it was a rare Native American artifact. Another time he bought a couple of antique cloisonne Chinese vases (elsewhere) for a few grand, and sold them for $26,000 at auction, because they were a few centuries older than the vendor realized. But you have to know what to look for, and there is so much detail.

I generally recommend learning to specialize in things you like, because you'll be more motivated, and besides that way when you get stuck with stuff, it will be stuff you like.

It's a hair-raising way to survive, but it works for some. I've never been any good at working for other people, myself.  


[ Parent ]
More power to you, Miep! (12.33 / 3)
This transaction was through Amazon, and I was the buyer, not the seller...but the vendor had a copy of a pizza cookbook that I got free (through my job) in the mid-1980s and literally used until it fell apart.  So I went & found a used (good condition) copy from a vendor in Texas selling through Amazon.  It wasn't expensive, I have an excellent-condition copy of my favorite pizza cookbook, and all went well.  I went through Amazon b/c I had an account there (and didn't, at the time, realize how evil Corporate Amazon is).

Oh, well: wish I had the entrepreneur gene in me.  Numbers make me crazy.  I can (barely) follow my bank account if I apply myself but can't remember my own phone number or the phone number where I work.

Sure, I can add and subtract.  Even multiply and divide.  But don't ask me to know what the answer was ten minutes later: I need to add or subtract (or multiply or divide) all over again.  I mean: they're just numbers and therefore meaningless.  To me.  This is why my ATM code spells something...so do all my online codes (not all the same thing, lol).

Words have meaning.  They have influence.  They are important.

Numbers are just a bunch of stuff humanoids with five fingers created to make the rich richer and the poor poorer.

IMHO.

(With apologies to any astrophysicists who might be reading this.)

English usage is sometimes more than mere taste, judgment and education - sometimes it's sheer luck, like getting across the street.
E. B. White  


[ Parent ]
heh (15.00 / 3)
i forget words i've read, movies i've seen... i can rewatch or reread appx once a year & have it be "new"
but i can tell you my SS# & those of mrD & my kids.
i know my phone# from when i was 8 & lived in Caracas. & the one when i 10 in Miami, & the one.... (you get the picture)

"Indeed, if a poor man will spend a year in prison for stealing out of hunger,
how high would the gallows need to be to hang the rich man?"
~The Patrician in 'Snuff' by Terry Pratchett



[ Parent ]
someone once told me (9.67 / 3)
that she was just amazed that I didn't have my state ID# memorized. I was kind of "huh?"

I still don't have it memorized. It has nines and sixes in it, I can tell you that much :-)


[ Parent ]
lol (10.33 / 3)
I can rattle off Social Security numbers for me, hubby, both parents and both kids, but can't for the life of me remember the 4 digit code that opens our garage.  

[ Parent ]
Amazon is bad (15.00 / 3)
but so is PayPal. And ABE is owned by Amazon. It's hard to get around. I do like biblio.com; they are indie and run by a staff of ten professional booksellers, and they google OK as well. I'm started on a project of putting together a new inventory for their site, though I only have a few dozen books listed so far. Not the most fascinating work in the world; I have to get on it though.

I think Alibris is still indie, but I don't know anything about the owners. But anyway, that's all just books and related media.

I remember numbers as patterns, and I always look for a pattern to remember. Example; a friend's phone number once ended in 3952, which is 3x13 and 4x13. He has a great math brain, and saw it immediately.

My phone number ends in 3557, which has a kind of pattern (3+2=5, there are 2 5's, and then 5+2=7).

Otherwise I use pretty much all alphanumeric passwords that spell out phrases with letters in both upper and lower cases, especially for the money accounts (and each one of those has a different one).

I follow my bank accounts (the ones I use a lot) by just checking them online every day and crosschecking them against a written tally in case I forgot to write something down. I got rid of overdraft insurance because otherwise I tend to screw up about once a year, because I didn't get a receipt for a check I wrote to some shop for $3, something like that. I write a lot of checks for this reason; it gives me a certain amount of buffer when I run an account too tight. I have one for checks and deposits, and another just for debit card transactions, which helps me be theft-proof. They are at the same bank and I can transfer between them online.

And yet another one in a different bank, in case someone does somehow screw up both of the others. I'd like to have yet another with no computer access. Color me paranoid, but debit card theft can be a real hassle to get resolved; much worse than credit card theft, I've read.



[ Parent ]
we are much like you (15.00 / 2)
in banking habits/worry about on-line theft, etc.

yeah, those number patterns are just there & i can't help but think/remember them that way. maybe it comes from starting on numbers early? i remember as a child helping mama cook, knowing basic idea of fractions before i ever started school from baking cakes/cookies & measuring things. & from very early i added up restaurant bills, small quick-mart bills- if there was a discrepancy i got the difference.... i remember when i was 7 going out to eat w/whole family & several guests - maybe 10-15 people- at a fancy-schmancy restaurant & daddy got the bll & immediately handed it to me to add up (i would figure out the tip also- & often was given money to go pay) it was off by about $15- in our favour & my dad called the manager over & explained what happened & the manager would not charge my dad the extra $$ & gave me the amount of the difference (so he lost twice over) the manager told me to grow up quickly & come to work there, he could use me!
gha!
soorry for the long ramble. the point i was trying to get to-
were you also doing maths early?

"Indeed, if a poor man will spend a year in prison for stealing out of hunger,
how high would the gallows need to be to hang the rich man?"
~The Patrician in 'Snuff' by Terry Pratchett



[ Parent ]
I was way ahead in math until I was about seventeen (14.67 / 3)
Then I lost interest when it actually started becoming work. If I'd been interested in a line of work that required more than simple algebra, I expect I would have kept it up.

[ Parent ]
Algebra was FUN! (14.50 / 2)
It was puzzles: like doing the NYT crossword puzzle, only with x's in place of the words.

Everything after algebra sucked....

My boss asked me, a couple of months ago, whether I'm good in math.

I said "No."  He seemed surprised.

Upon reflection, I realize that he probably meant Can you add/subtract/multiply/divide without excessive use of a calculator?

Um...yeah.  Sometimes.  After a few ten-hour shifts in a row, they better be very easy calculations:  I'll use the calculator just to make sure I'm not too tired to subtract two from six, if you know what I mean.

English usage is sometimes more than mere taste, judgment and education - sometimes it's sheer luck, like getting across the street.
E. B. White  


[ Parent ]
you know, I do know exactly what you mean (0.00 / 0)
how funny.

When I was in fourth grade, I got stuck on the multiplication tables. I just couldn't get it. Fortunately I had this stellar teacher, Mrs. Morganthaler, bless her; who somehow got me past my mental block.

She was a real trip...she'd do stuff like show up at the school Halloween fair with her hair dyed fluorescent green. And this was in the early 60's.

When I got to algebra, I'd come to class, do the next day's homework in about five minutes, read novels for the rest of the class, and routinely ace the courses.

But after that...yeah.

After flunking 1st term calculus three times, I finally ran across a teacher who started out like this:

"Okay, say you want to build a hot tub, and you have only so much redwood...how do you figure out the biggest hot tub you can build with those materials?"

In retrospect, this sounds more like a geometry problem, but he had me there, and I aced the course.

Never went back to calculus again, though I can intuit it, with regards to things like rates of acceleration changing.


[ Parent ]
((((( Miep))))) (13.33 / 3)
great info! and so good to see you here, my friend. I've been on a bit of an online break, so please forgive me for not being around to give ya a hug when you first arrived.

It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Thoreau ... and, do no harm

Hi there; nice to see you here too (15.00 / 5)
I understand about getting away from the tubes at times...in theory, at least :-)

How have you been?


[ Parent ]
doing good, Miep (12.50 / 2)
thanks, m'dear. just trying to enjoy the simple gifts and squeeze out every ounce of happiness I can. how are things on your end of the world? djeez, I can't believe we haven't spoken since last christmas  :o(

It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Thoreau ... and, do no harm

[ Parent ]
my life is pretty quiet (15.00 / 2)
Always plenty to do, though. Mostly just trying to pull myself together to drum up more money; you know how that goes. More money, more choices.

[ Parent ]
Welcome back, newp! (10.50 / 2)
Good to see you posting again!  How've you been doing?  Hope you're doing well.  How's Juan?  How's your friend, Helga, with all the birds?  How're all the animals?  Just curious.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[ Parent ]
mplo! (9.00 / 2)
how did your Sign of the Dove show go?
it was this weekend, right?

"Indeed, if a poor man will spend a year in prison for stealing out of hunger,
how high would the gallows need to be to hang the rich man?"
~The Patrician in 'Snuff' by Terry Pratchett



[ Parent ]
& pleeze (15.00 / 1)
be sure to see this:
http://www.firefly-dreaming.co...

let me know what you want to do, okay?

over a dozen people have looked at your silverwork post in the past 2-3 days!
holidays are coming, people want to purchase gifts........

"Indeed, if a poor man will spend a year in prison for stealing out of hunger,
how high would the gallows need to be to hang the rich man?"
~The Patrician in 'Snuff' by Terry Pratchett



[ Parent ]
Hi, RiaD! Thanks for thinking about me, and for asking. (13.00 / 2)
Our Sign of the Dove holiday store/ show opened just this last Thursday, and it went beautifully!  There was a good turnout of people.  Our Sign of the Dove Holiday Store will be open through Christmas Eve, when it will close for the year.  

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[ Parent ]
good for you! (11.00 / 3)
And good luck with your holiday sales.

[ Parent ]
Thanks, Miep! (13.33 / 3)


The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[ Parent ]
Ooooooh! (9.33 / 3)
i thought it was just a weekend show.
how very cool it is all the way through until the holidays.
i sure hope you do very well- i know how very beautiful your items are are how hard you work on them.
very best of luck!
(& do keep us updated!)

"Indeed, if a poor man will spend a year in prison for stealing out of hunger,
how high would the gallows need to be to hang the rich man?"
~The Patrician in 'Snuff' by Terry Pratchett



[ Parent ]
Thanks, RiaD. (13.00 / 2)
The  Sign of the Dove Holiday Store is an exciting time of the year for me and everybody else involved.  I'll keep you and everybody else updated.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[ Parent ]
hey, Miki! (9.00 / 2)
good to see you, too. we haven't talked since your trip, how did it go? and how is your beautiful girl Aziza?

all's well here, been really busy, but I have a break from teaching evening classes until after Thanksgiving. trying to catch up for the past few days with the animals (who are all doing well) and barn (yuk!)

It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Thoreau ... and, do no harm


[ Parent ]
Hey there, newp! Thanks for asking. (15.00 / 2)
Thanks for the well-wishing, and the welcome back.  My trip to Iowa City, IA was fabulous.  Lots of fun, good conversation, laughter and good food, as well as meeting some of my sister's friends and colleagues, and her young son, who lives not too far from where she does.  My sister has a house that she bought fairly recently, which is much smaller than the one that she was living in before, and that her two sons grew up in.  

Glad you're doing well, newp, and that you get a break for awhile from teaching.  That's always good to have.  Aziza's great, lots of fun, as always, and she's ever curious about stuff around her.  It's great to have her around, and I think she's on her way to really talking, now.  

The more things change, the more they stay the same.


[ Parent ]
As a general rule, I've always made it a point NOT to do financial transactions online, since I feel that it'll leave me too vulnerable to ID Theft, and possibly other stuff, (15.00 / 2)
but, I have occasionally charged tickets for special events through an online account that I'm familiar with, is secure, and that I consider trustworthy.  I've even bought occasional things on Amazon, including my new printer, and afew other things, but that's as far as it goes for me regarding online financial transactions.  I wouldn't try EBay, Paypal, or any of the other online financial transaction organizations, but that's just me.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

well, you do have a point (11.00 / 3)
which is why I like the idea of buffer zones. But I could use make them a bit more thorough. That's why I was thinking about starting another bank account, at the credit union, and keeping money there, just using the other ones for online stuff as needed.

Since I sell stuff online, I don't have much choice...with Ebay, you pretty much have to take PayPal, or something like PayPal, and then you need a bank account to transfer the PayPal to, or get one of their credit cards. I think I tried once and they wouldn't clear me for one, though. No credit :-(

But even with your own site, good luck finding people who will be good with only paying by check. People will mostly go elsewhere because they are in a hurry and used to the whole electronic thing.

ID theft is a valid concern. I have many imaginary birthdates online, whenever some site insists on one :-)  


[ Parent ]

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