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Just wonder...................What Do You Think about Teachers?

  

by: Kathleen

Sat Mar 19, 2011 at 11:19:44 AM EDT


( - promoted by RiaD)

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I am curious.......

The last time you talked to a teacher did you ask that teacher what their biggest complaint is about being a teacher?  That is if you can get them to tell you because teachers are very careful about complaining about their jobs.

This is a question I ask teachers all the time and what I get time and time again is having to teach to the test.  Teachers are caught on an awful treadmill of the quest for high test scores......... why?

School districts need those test scores high to bring in more students which brings in more money which helps the local economy.

States and the federal government (No child left behind) impose mandatory testing and they also put the pressure on for high test scores.

In Washington State we had mandatory testing and this is our report card after teachers spend a good chunk of the year teaching just for the testing they will be giving.
http://reportcard.ospi.k12.wa....

As a parent with a son with a disability who does horrid at testing I, along with teachers, can testify that mandatory testing does not tell the whole story and often harms the learning process with many kids like my son.  It ties the teachers hands and takes the creativity out of teaching.

more below the fold:

Kathleen :: Just wonder...................What Do You Think about Teachers?
My son was very quiet as a young child, even when prompted with questions his response was often delayed and few words.  He was a premy so I watched his delayed progress very closely, I saw a little boy through those eyes that couldn't seem to get out.

Reading was a struggle and comprehension was shockingly low. We were terrified, by 2nd grade his performance was so low his teacher requested the A team test him so we could figure out what we were dealing with. The conclusion of the testing they gave him showed he had a below average IQ and gravely gave me the news in a meeting. They told me that he would just fall farther and farther behind and would always be in classes with kids who were delayed. I sobbed.

One of the members of this A team was an hearing audio specialist. She had not tested him because the initial common hearing test showed his hearing was fine, but she knew those tests often do not tell the whole story, so she spoke up and said let me test him. God bless her.

Her test showed our son has Central Audio Processing Disorder and that some sounds in words my son could not hear.  CAPD has been described as listening to spoken words under water, English for my son was the same as hearing a different language for other people.  My son, all of his young life, was having to decipher what people were saying before he responded.  To make matters worse people with CAPD memory does not work the same.  Normally when you have a memory, to access that memory you use the same channel through the brain that makes access quick. For CAPD people they have to forge a new channel each time to access which causes a delayed response.  So when a teacher would ask my son a question in front of the class he would just say I don't know to get the pressure off him even if he did know.

This was the beginning of a long journey of doctors, specialist outside the schools and intense brain work, yes the brain can be changed.  When my son was tested visually by a neurologist, he tested way above average IQ which left me wondering WTF is IQ anyway?

I am making this long story short by saying today my son is in his second year of college with an IEP that allows him extra time for testing in a room with no distractions.  He has a B average all the while working full time as a cashier in drug a store, pretty amazing.  The job is just as valuable as college because the forced interaction with customers has greatly improved his interaction skills and eye contact.  My son has endured, bullying and teachers who had no time to teach him because of class size but at the same time he is lucky, he has great empathy for those that struggle and had amazing special ed teachers who did take the time with him because he wanted to learn. Those same teachers follow his progress today with great wonder and pride, bless them all. It is a testament to my son that he never gave up, so many do and I don't blame them because the up hill battle is overwhelming.

The love I have for this teacher who did this extra testing to discover the CAPD (a disability very few knew about at the time) in 2nd grade is beyond what I can ever express in words. Her extra effort is not surprising to me because I come from a family of teachers and I know the stuff they are made of.

This is a great read and prompted this essay:
http://dirtyhippies.org/2011/0...

My frustration with this system we have is teachers are forced into a box, kids are forced into a box and the outcome is not good. There is a certain percentage that do well in the box and achieve well in college but I have to ask what they contribute to society in the end of the education road, they test well yes but how creative are they? Can they think outside the box?

Teachers are blamed all the while their hands are tied.  

The experience with my son had me questioning how many kids can not learn the traditional way?  How many are smart but are labeled with low IQ because of the testing that is used?  What percentage of kids are left behind in the wake of the course we have forced our educational system to go?  Do you wonder about this?  Who invented the bell curve and why is it acceptable to just teach to the top of that curve, with the idea that these are the only kids that can learn?

Yes the system is broken and at a time when we need creative smart teachers and students the most, what we are getting is a system of forced testing for data to prove results that a certain percentage of our kids have memorized enough material to do well on the test.  

It leaves me wondering have you talked to a teacher or a student lately and ask them what they think about our educational system?  They are the only ones who will have the answer.

The best video ever, please watch and pass it on!!@!

This is a letter written by a high school teacher in Wisconsin to Scott Walker.....
http://bangthebuckets.com/?p=1


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Tips for teachers (15.57 / 7)
we need them now more than ever.

Bear Shake Tree Pictures, Images and Photos

wOw (14.75 / 4)
i didn't know. he is quite a wonderful kid.

i recently read this essay at Stars Hollow
The State of Public Education from a Student's Perspective by Phoenix

i'll copy my comment from there:

while i do agree somewhat with you about the need for leveling students i think that given an un-leveled class one can make it work by having the smarter "more gifted" kids help the slower "less gifted" ones. this was done in my 6th grade mumblety-four years ago. (gha, i hate having to be PC)
it accomplished several things at once: teachers with huge classes suddenly have teachers-assistants, giving them time to give individual help those in desperate need; often kids can explain to other kids in a way more easily understood; the slower kids get more individual attention; the smarter kids really come to understand whatever lesson by explaining it to someone else; bonds are formed between kids that otherwise might not associate.

the decline in education has been going on for a long, long time. my mom (who would've been 94 this year) knew how to do multiplication, division,  fractions & decimals by the end of second grade. she & everyone in her class were taught the basics of chemistry, biology, geography, american & world history, algebra/trig, drawing, music, literature, latin, french or spanish & english by the time they graduated high school; some took advanced classes.  

the standardized test, in my mind, was the onset of the "great decline" in education.  the recent "need" for teachers to do so much paperwork (writing syllabi daily, filing these at school office in advance, etc), to take courses yearly (?)to remain certified, & to socially promote students has made it harder for teachers to actually, you know, spend time in the classroom teaching.
a secondary factor, in my opinion, is the lessening of punishment on students for not accomplishing a set task or maintaining a certain level of behaviour. getting a zero isn't enough when you know they have to promote you. i partially blame the lessening of expectations we have for younger people. i've found the more you expect of people & believe that they will achieve the harder they will strive to do so.

the funding for education must be increased. communities that have schools with higher drop out rates need even more funding- for schools & other community programs also- like day-care & after school care, community gardens, very local libraries & theater groups, playgrounds & parks.

until we fund not only education but communities we will produce a fairly un-educated populace who are content to work for a minimum wage that stays stagnant, shop at the big-box stores, watch reality TV.

kids don't advance at the same rate. they don't get stimulated to learn by the same inputs. to me, a teachers main job is to find a way to stimulate each child. sometimes that takes extraordinary measures. teaching to standardized tests seems ridiculous to me.

"Indeed, if a poor man will spend a year in prison for stealing out of hunger,
how high would the gallows need to be to hang the rich man?"
~The Patrician in 'Snuff' by Terry Pratchett



I added a video (14.40 / 5)
it is outstanding!!!!!!  Please watch!!

I agree with you Ria great response.

Here again....



Bear Shake Tree Pictures, Images and Photos


[ Parent ]
Ria, you reminded me of (14.50 / 4)
someone I went to HS with.  She was extremely bright -- but she was president of the B'nai B'rith (hope I spelled that properly) and as such, traveled around the state a lot.  Before BB, I used to go to her residence & we would do some homework together.  Later when she was traveling a lot for BB, she was getting at least a B average, and HS almost withheld her diploma for missing too many days at school.

WTF?  She's passing every test, she's learning stuff through her travels, & you want to deny her a diploma just b/c every student is cut from the same pegboard and we are all teachable in the same way?

FUCK that shit.

In elementary school, I was an "average" student.  When called upon, I often didn't know the answer to the question...especially in reading class.

Why?

I was so bored I was about 50 pages ahead of the class in the book...and I didn't think "What color dress was [the protagonist] wearing on page 20?" was really an important part of the story.

I'm still angry about that.  I learned to read on my own (having books around & being read to was a major factor, of course) beginning at age 3-4.

Then I go to school & am stuck with "A is for Apple" -- where's the Dr. Seuss?

My friend David -- who is a teacher & who had similar problems in grade school -- tells me that teachers are taught to teach to the middle: the really bright students & the students who need extra help are typically short-changed by the public school system.

But my heart goes out to anyone who is teaching in the current RW environment.  They put their souls into it -- not to mention their own money in terms of buying stuff for their classes that the school district is too R to buy for them -- and they are subsequently vilified by those same R-wingnuts.

I don't know how this plays out.  I just know I'm in favor of teachers' unions, and anti-everything RW.

English usage is sometimes more than mere taste, judgment and education - sometimes it's sheer luck, like getting across the street.
E. B. White  


[ Parent ]
Youff (14.25 / 4)
I love your sharing about elementary school.

My friend David -- who is a teacher & who had similar problems in grade school -- tells me that teachers are taught to teach to the middle.

The school district I live in the teachers teach to the brightest and everyone else struggles to keep up.  It is the goal because everyone is college bound or at least their parents think so.  I question the value of the curricula that is taught.

I always dreamed of starting a high school for kids.  It would be a humanitarian high school teaching kids about the struggles of people and how they could make a difference.  How I would do it is.  At the beginning of the year have different non-profits come in and give a demonstrations about the people/countries they work with.  With the agreement that if their non-profit is chosen by the kids they would take the kids with them on a trip to help.

Then the kids would be divided up by which humanitarian org. they wanted to help.  Then each group would decide what they wanted to do for the organization.  

They would be required and graded on:

Determining needs
Raising money and what they target to use the money on
Learn about the currency and exchange rates
Learn the language and about the culture
Working as a team and establishing individual goals and team goals
Working with the non-profit
Planning travel for items and people
Writing a plan and results review
On returning from the trip doing presentations with video/slides at other high schools of their achievements and how they did it.

I started a district wide humanitarian program through the PTA where we did this as extra work with kids.  I found they felt empowered. I found all kids wanted and got great joy for these projects, my goal was for them to feel the experience, to learn that life is not the same for all kids around the world but they are just as smart and love just as much. I wanted them to learn that we are more alike than different. I did this for over 10 years and then handed over the project to others to stay home and care for my mom.http://www.wastatepta.org/leadership/programs_to_go/HumanitarianOutreachProgram.pdf

Bear Shake Tree Pictures, Images and Photos


[ Parent ]
please (11.75 / 4)
do an essay on this.
it sounds fabulous

"Indeed, if a poor man will spend a year in prison for stealing out of hunger,
how high would the gallows need to be to hang the rich man?"
~The Patrician in 'Snuff' by Terry Pratchett



[ Parent ]
OK Ria I will chew on that (15.00 / 4)
in a way I am sick of it because I lived it for so long but this whole teacher issue has reawaken that part of me.

When I realized what we were really in by moving here I ask myself why did we end up here and then it dawned on me this was it, to involve kids in doing humanitarian work.  It was a perfect fit because it was easy to raise money and the kids needed the empathy side of them awakened by seeing just how powerful they could be in making a difference. Boy I had no idea what kids could do I have at least a 1000 stories of huge things that kids did in the program.  They talk about them at the state level PTA link:
.http://www.wastatepta.org/leadership/programs_to_go/HumanitarianOutreachProgram.pdf

I thought the high school idea would be perfect for all kids but especially for the kids that fall through the huge crack we have in our educational system.  If I were an employer I would want to hire a kid that had gone to a high school like this.  We need educational models that turn kids on to learn not off, that embrace creative ideas and the key to that is give them the power.  What more power is there than to see the results of your creation that changed and saved lives?

Bear Shake Tree Pictures, Images and Photos


[ Parent ]
What Ria Said. (14.00 / 4)
Not everyone in my HS was college-bound -- but back then we had technical high schools too.  Not everyone is college material, and let's face it: in the current economy, even lawyers and medical technicians are being outsourced.

But if you're a plumber?  You don't need college: you just need to be competent and in the immediate vicinity.  Anyone who is experiencing a major flood b/c a pipe broke will pay whatever you charge, just to get the leak fixed.

There was a show on Discovery about 6 or 8 years ago...it was about welding.  The master welder was a woman...an African-American woman at that...and you could see the joy in her eyes when she talked about and demonstrated her trade.  It was so clear that she LOVED it.  My impression was that this woman was smart enough to be a Rhodes scholar...she just preferred welding to textbooks.

Why does our society think there's something wrong with that?

English usage is sometimes more than mere taste, judgment and education - sometimes it's sheer luck, like getting across the street.
E. B. White  


[ Parent ]
Our society thinks that way because the (14.00 / 3)
wrong people got the microphone and eventually the tax money.  Let's face it - the most affluent areas get the best teachers, more money, more arts, music and involved parents - and that's a cycle that's hard to break.

My own education came about because a number of women chose to give their lives to God and teaching.  I was taught by Catholic nuns, and especially my high school teachers were wonderful plus I had the experience of an all girls school taught by women.  Women who had to go back to school every summer; many had masters and doctorates.  Where else would an Italian girl from Little Italy born to working class parents get a chance to study Latin and Greek philosophy.  I credit Latin to my literary pretensions and Plato for whatever good sense I've retained - and my local library as well.  (Let's hear it for librarians.) We were feminists before Betty Frieden wrote her seminal book.  I know Catholicism is not much respected on many blogs, but it is my cultural heritage - as well as a belief system, but not so rigid as some think.  The nuns taught us critical thinking. To me, religion is mostly cultural - familial, tribal.  It is what it is - but an open mind and tolerance are to be sought.

I finally got my degree in my sixties - because I love school but had to work early on.  I think everyone who works and wants to attend night and/or weekend school should be be allowed to read Greek or Latin, for instance - or physics or astrology and astronomy at low costs.  But we need that money for planes and bombs, apparently.

Teachers have shaped me - what's not to like.  

As to education - the people who are running this country now from Harvard inter alia, could use a few classes in welding - useful and instructive.  

Warm and smart diary, and I appreciate you're sharing you're sharing your family with us, kathleen.

As to asking teachers what they dislike about teaching, I'm sure the nuns would have said:  You silly girls.  You can memorize lyrics to silly songs on the radio, but you can't memorize the first declension.  Open your books to page 73- and you'd better have done your homework.

or something to that effect.

For who could have foretold
That the heart grows old.
W.B. Yeats


[ Parent ]
Xanthe (13.67 / 3)
thank you for sharing your school experience, how wonderful.  I have always loved the idea of girls only schools.  There is a private school K-12 in Tacoma that becomes a girls only at the high school level and I have heard they do better in math and science without the boys around but teachers I talked to that work there say they do better in everything. I love this.

As to education - the people who are running this country now from Harvard inter alia, could use a few classes in welding - useful and instructive
.

Good idea.  I have often thought there should be requirements before one could run for President like:

being on the front lines of a war for a couple of months

working in a hospital for the wounded

working/living in a village in a 3rd world helping in someway

I can't remember the whole list now but I would add the diversity of educational experience as you mentioned.  I love that.

Bear Shake Tree Pictures, Images and Photos


[ Parent ]
You mentioned (12.50 / 2)
one of my main heroes, librarians.  I've wished for years that librarians ran the world.  I think all countries would be doing better if they had a librarian as head of state.  Then knowledge and education would be a main goal and so would rights for people.


[ Parent ]
Alma I love you (16.00 / 1)
My mom's love for books took her from being a teacher to being a school librarian to the administrator or libraries in the school district.  After she retired she volunteered in the county library system, editor of the newsletter and running the book sales of the books the libraries didn't need anymore.

Thank you for appreciating the wonderful work librarians do!!  I love you.

Bear Shake Tree Pictures, Images and Photos


[ Parent ]
How cool Kathleen :) (14.00 / 1)
Our school district doesn't have an administrator of libraries for the district as far as I know.  Of course they might have had it when I went to school and it might have been one of the cuts before my kids got in school.  

I hung out a lot in my kids schools libraries always helping with book fares and what not.  When they were in middle school the librarian had a masectomy over the summer so that year we did a whole lot of work getting the library ready for the year so she wouldn't over do it.  As you can imagine that brought us extra close to her and we had some really interesting conversations that year.  The most memorable one was whether it was alright for a female teacher to have affairs with her 14yr old male students.  We were kind of split on that one.  While we all agreed it wouldn't be okay with a male teacher and a female student some thought it would be okay pretty much no matter what, some thought if it was a mature 14yr old it would be okay and some not okay no matter what.  I was in the prude no matter what catagory on that one (and in the minority) because I thought it was a sexist double standard.  LOL

I'm so glad she kept going after she retired and did the volunteer work.  Its a necessity for the people and I bet it did your mom  good too!

I always loved libraries and librarians but when Bush started his crap is when it went to hero worship status.  They were the first ones out of the gate on the Patriot Act and all the crappy things in it (not just the stuff on libraries in it).  For awhile it seemed like I was finding a story a week on something really good they had done and brave for the mood of a lot of the ignorant or hawkish in the country.  Whether it was leading the charge against something in court or letting us know what was happening.  One of my favorites was how they were ahead of the game when we attacked Iraq and some of them had hidden the library books so they would be safe.  I believe also at the time the world wide library association came out with things against the war and asking for us to make sure Iraqi historical artifacts were protected.  Its been a few years now so I might have some of the details wrong.

Oh and it wasn't/isn't just me.  My sister backs them just as strongly as I do and we would pass articles back and forth about the kick ass librarians.  


[ Parent ]
I am with you on that conversation (13.00 / 1)
I am a prude not to mention all  the ethical issues of a person with power over a teen.  I remember my husband telling me about a friend he had when he was 13 who was having sex with a neighbor who was 30 he said all his buddies were jealous. LOL

There is case of a woman teacher here in Washington state who was having sex with her 12 year student, got caught and was sent to jail for something like 10 years forbidden to have contact.  She was pregnant by him by the time they caught her.  She had the baby in jail and his mother and him raised the child.  When she was release she was on probation and forbidden to see him but got caught again and was sent back to jail pregnant again.  She had the second baby and it was given to his mother again.  The last time she was release she had served her full time and it was with no restrictions.  They got married and are raising their kids together.  They both, the entire time, claimed they were in love.  Finally in the end his mother supported their relationship. Strange!

I honestly don't know if it damages a boy the way it damages a girl but I do know that a teacher has no business having sex with a student period and that goes for the college level as well.  It changes the dynamic of the relationship and I think damages the learning environment.

Bear Shake Tree Pictures, Images and Photos


[ Parent ]
The abuse (14.00 / 1)
of power played heavily into my thoughts on it as well, even though the age of the boy would have been enough for me I think.  It was a no brainer to me so I was quite surprized at the other thoughts on it differing so much.  I wouldn't have been surprized if it had been men with that position but I was surprized at it being women.  

When my SIL was in the airforce she wanted out.  Luckily she fell in love with one of her instructors.  At least I think the love came before their plan.  Anyway she got pregnant on purpose by him so she could get out of the service and they could get married.  She got booted out and he got a slap on the wrist and booted to being a recruiter instead of an instructor.  This was back in about 83 or 84.  They are still married and have 5 adult children.  


[ Parent ]
Great response Youff (15.00 / 2)
I wonder how many of those lawyers wish they had become plumbers or welders. How many are kids that were encouraged to target money instead of exploring  passions?

I heard more than one teacher tell my son he could go to auto mechanic school and never mention college, my son sat silently listening and I fumed because I knew he wanted to go to college and had no interest in being an auto mechanic.  My husband maintains all of our cars and not once could he get my son to work with him.  He admired his friends who loved it but my son no.

All too often many teachers who see a child with learning difficulties they think this is their only option, trade school. I am just grateful that my son still had the determination to follow his dream.  He may chose a profession that doesn't require a 4 year degree but at least he kept all his options open.  I think he will end up working with kids, people with disabilities or elderly.  He is interested in exercise science, Physical Therapy, personal trainer, health and nutrition, video game addiction and loving sign language so far.  

I have told him that right now is not the time to chose a career it is a time to discover passions I don't care if he is in school 6 year or more.  Spring quarter he is taking English 201, Sociology 101, ASL II.

Most of his friends are just focused on a degree usually in business just trying to get college out of the way.  I watch my son really enjoying school and his teachers now more than he ever did in his first 12 grades.


Bear Shake Tree Pictures, Images and Photos


[ Parent ]
Oh Kathleen (15.00 / 1)
so much of your story hit me as exactly what I went through with Dale.  

And we had some good teachers and some not so much.  Since we never got an accurate diagnosis when he was in school it made it a little tough.

I'll never forget trying to get through to his 5th grade teacher.  The following little story is so you have a little insight as to the teacher:  The teacher collected and sent in the Campbells soup labels for free equipment for years until I took it over.  Now when you sign up for being the lead contact with Campbells they have a spot for you to put in any title for yourself that you want.  Before I got signed up as lead I had to get some of the old stuff from the teacher.  When I looked at how it was addressed to him I about died laughing.  He had "Deity" as his title before his name.  He wasn't a bad guy but when I went to school he was the teacher that they sent kids to for spankings so he was used to playing a tough guy.

With aspergers sight is different than other people.  Its like background noise is to a lot of us, they don't know where to focus and little things catch their eyes and it makes it confusing, so Dale liked to doodle while listening so he could concentrate.  Well this teacher didn't like that (and was always yelling at him to quit it I found out later).  Even though Dale was doing well academically in his class he took it as a personal afront, thinking Dale wasn't paying attention since he wasn't looking at him.  Well the teacher decided to bring this up in the school office.  I was at the school almost everyday doing volunteer work.  Now this teacher is 6'4" and I'm 5'2", but my dad was 6'2" so heights never intimidated me, especially when it comes to my kids. Neither of us got loud but he kept coming forward as he explained that Dale wasn't paying attention in class that he sits and doodles, until we were toe to toe and I was having to look straight up.  As I explained that Dale was actually concentrating more doodling, the teacher started getting frustrated and was just spouting things about how it wasn't respectful for Dale not to look at him while he lectured.  As I started asking if Dales grades were bad and things like that the teacher started backing up until we were a normal space apart again.  He still wasn't happy that I didn't agree that Dale should watch him constantly but he did agree not to hold it against him.  



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